ELAINE WELTWORTH (EW): Hold on. What exactly are we doing right now? Help me understand.
They asked me to ask that question. I said, no I’m not going to ask that question.
I said, wait, what’s the intention of this conversation? Because this could go left so fast.
They go, ‘let me call you back.’ I said to them, this is going to be a train wreck.
Oh look at this sweetheart, you can tell. Sharon I am just so sorry that that went the way that it went.
SHARON OSBOURNE (SO): Do you know what it is though, when you have to sit there and defend yourself? It makes you look guilty because you can’t get out of it.
It’s like Jack always says, it’s like calling somebody a pedophile, you can’t deny it. What do you say?
JACK OSBOURNE (JO): It’s like how do you….’come look at my web browser, I’m not a pedophile,’ like, you know?
EW: I don’t think… we…we all agree, when you left we were like, there’s no way that we should just [drowned out by ringtone] in that conversation without having a [garbled] altogether.
I thought…I thought – I was told “Sharon wants to comment on Piers”, I go, “great!” They go, “OK, is there anything you wanna say?” I was like, no. Not at all.’
SO: As I was driving in this morning, they said do you want to comment on Piers? I said sure I will. Sure.
Four minutes. Four minutes before I went out, they called me and said, “you know, some might not agree with your opinion, is that alright for them to air?”
I said of course it is. We talk whatever they feel. You know, we’ll discuss it.
I never thought it was gonna be…that. Because …. whatever you say you just look guilty. And now everybody’s gonna have that little seed of doubt: “well you know, maybe she’s a bit racist.”
EW: ‘It’s so f**ked up.
SO: These people here, that run this, have no ethics. They don’t care. They just want numbers, numbers, numbers.
EW: Did you speak to them? Did you get anyone on the phone yet?
SO: Nobody’s here. Nobody’s here, the building … the offices are empty.
EW: I just want you to know, Sharon. Sheryl loves you and respects you so much and had your back behind the scenes. She was not trying to attack you.
But I also understand when you had night long of trolls f**king attacking you online, that puts you in a position where you have to defend yourself. You feel like you have to defend yourself.
And I know you’re upset. I know it was terrible, but I just hope that once this blows over, that you know Sheryl is your friend. She really is your friend.
She doesn’t think you’re racist. I don’t think you’re racist. No one who knows you would ever say that or think that.
SO: But why couldn’t she have said: “I’ve known you for 11 years, I know you are not racist” instead of, “I don’t think you are.” No, I know you’re not.
There’s a huge difference. A f**king night and day difference to know.
I’ve gone to Sheryl, I’ve said, “educate me. I need to know about your heritage. I need to know things.”
She would tell me to get this book and that book and whatever, and she would help me out with things that I didn’t quite understand.
When that came, I was like…it was like somebody punched me in the face.
EW: I don’t know if you saw but [showrunner] ran up to me before we got on air and she goes I’m so sorry …[drowned out by phone ringing]….enough time
Then I go, “we shouldn’t be talking about this!”
SO: You said that?
EW: Yeah. That’s why I sat there silent thinking… I thought, “okay, Sharon wants to say something. Let her say the thing and then we’ll move on to Selena f**king Gomez.
They literally made her ask that question. And I thought that she was setting it up in way so that you knew – I assumed that you guys had had a pre-conversation so that you were on the same page.
SO: No! No! No! I’m running out. Just as I’m running out – I always go for a wee, four- five minutes before.
Phone rings: “How do you feel about not everybody agreeing with you.”
Agreeing with me? Well fine, they can ask me whatever they want. I’m fine.
But that’s like….it’s not like “they’re gonna accuse you of being a racist.”
EW: Nobody, nobody was even discussing disagreeing with you. At least from me, I can tell you straightforward. They said: “do you have anything to say?”
I go, “no. If Sharon wants to comment, Sharon should comment and then we move on to the next topic.
I have enough s**t going on in my own personal life. To be honest, Sharon, I didn’t even read the tweets.
I don’t even what people said to you. I only know because people texted me a screenshot and I go, “okay. okay.” I literally feel nothing.
But here’s the one thing – and maybe we talk about this more another day – but the thing I hope you’re aware of, because you said in that room you saw something in her eye, you felt like she was coming at you like a journalist.
Here’s the thing that I just want you to just know: Sheryl and I are held to a different standard by black people and people of color out there who expect us to say something about every racist anything… and it puts us in such a f**ked up position.
That even if we don’t have the information, if we don’t even really care, if we don’t really wanna engage, it feels like there’s a spotlight on us, you know?
And … I think that Sheryl was trying to navigate that line, you know what I mean, where she was like, “this is my friend.” I know you’re not racist.
And I hear you though, I will take that to heart. You are right, you wanted to hear “you are not a racist, Sharon.” We know that.
MAKEUP ARTIST: I actually just explained that to her right now.
EW: Yeah. I think she thinks she said that but she said, “I don’t think you’re racist.” And I think she meant the same thing.
SO: “I know” and “I don’t think”…is like this far away.
[chatter]
EW: And really, that’s an enlightening moment for me to hear you say that. I wanna apologize because I don’t know what I said, maybe I didn’t say “I know you’re not”.
I might have said “I think”, but I need you to know I f**ing know you’re not.
SO: I know that!
EW: I f**king know you’re not!
SO: I know that. Now I feel the big picture. I know what happened. I know what happened.
MAKEUP ARTIST: She just told me she got a call at 4 in the morning. It just went f**ing haywire.
SO: No, they set me up. CBS set me up. And they don’t care because they just want ratings. They don’t care. They don’t care that I will now have to go around and people think I’m racist. They don’t give a s**t. They just want ratings. That’s all.
EW: And that’s the part that’s inhumane. I was like, don’t f**king make us talk about Selena Gomez after this. This is inhumane.
SO: You said that. You did.
MAKEUP ARTIST: Yeah. I heard you say that. I agree 100 on that. How do you transition?
EW: Yeah we’re not actors. You don’t pay me to be a f**king Oscar-winning actress. No.
MAKEUP ARTIST: That’s right. Yeah you did say that.
EW: No. It felt like we were all set up – particularly you – but I also felt set up because I was like sitting there and Sheryl goes, “what would you like to say?”
I’m like…what the f**k? I don’t have nothing to say. Why are we having this conversation right now?
MAKEUP ARTIST: But even that second sectors.. I was like change topics! Just change it. Don’t even ask … It was just a lot.
EW: It was so much. And it’s like – I’m not even talking to you now, Sharon. I’m not talking … it’s like America.
Black America, White America, Racist America, it’s like they’re like they’re all watching us and there’s this pressure to demonstrate how to talk about this stuff, but we haven’t ever been guided on how to f**king do this.
I’m not an D&I [diversity and inclusion] expert. I didn’t know I was gonna come on here and be the – I don’t know how to do that, actually.
SO: No! Neither do I, I’m just a f**king old woman [background laughter] that has a lot of stories. I don’t f**king care if you’re an alien. Are you a nice alien? Then come sit down.
I don’t give a … I just don’t judge by anything. How can I be a judge of anybody with my heritage? I can’t. And it’s like, for numbers, for ratings, they have done this.
MAKEUP ARTIST: Well it’s your character. This is like who you are as a person and that’s so not anything…
JO: But it’s CBS offering up one of their own so they don’t have to make an apology. CBS didn’t wanna have to make it because everyone is so terrified of fanning the flames of the mob that they just went “alright, let’s just f**king serve her up to her own team that way we don’t have to say anything. Like “oh it handled itself.”
EW: That’s right. You’re right about that. Because for me I was confused.
When somebody texted me this tweet, I looked at it and I was confused, Sharon, because I thought someone was quoting something you said on the show and I go, “she didn’t say that.”
And then I look more carefully and say, oh she tweeted that. And to me, I’m like, that’s her platform.
If you say that on your platform and you’re dealing with trolls your dealing with controversy, that’s your business in your own platform. But why are we addressing things on the show that she didn’t say on the show?
On the show, you walk this delicate tight rope where you really supported your friend but you didn’t alienate people who were people of color who thought you handled yourself really well on the show when you addressed it. Leave it at that.
MAKEUP ARTIST: It happened. It should’ve just been a statement and then move on.
EW: Maybe it’s like, “hey Sharon, you wanna comment on it. Comment on your Twitter, let’s just leave it there or something.
Or if you really want us to talk about this – thank you. Is my face looking crazy?
[LAUGHTER/CHATTER]
Who knows what I look like right now.