When James Jones was made redundant by the Welsh Rugby Union at the age of 34, he expected to spend the rest of his life as a lawyer. Eight years on, Jones is now among rugby league’s top officials and hoping to get his chance in Super League.
You refereed superstar rugby union players such as Jonny Wilkinson, Brian O’Driscoll and Sam Warburton. What was the highlight?
“Probably the World Cup Sevens in Dubai in 2009. They were looking to get sevens into the Olympics and so all the Olympic committee big hitters were there, so it had to go well. It got the green light. I was refereeing at my best but Wales went and won it, so I couldn’t ref the final! I was on the World Sevens circuit for six or seven years on and off. It was a unique and excellent experience.”
You refereed top level union all over Europe. How did that work?
“They have an exchange programme, so English refs do a couple of Pro-14 or Top 14 games and we would go to ref in the Premiership or France. It exposed French and English clubs to our style, so they knew us when we refereed them in the Champions Cup. Otherwise you would do Toulouse v Leinster and the Leinster lads had first-hand experience of you but you would be a stranger to Toulouse. You got meaty clashes and all clubs could watch videos of you.”
How did you get on in France?
“It was great. In European competitions they encourage refereeing in English, but I have conversational French so would ref in French and translate for the English-speaking players and coaches. I was able to communicate and that went a long way. After all, it’s their tournament so you should ref in French. That’s respect. The foreign coaches weren’t too pleased, though!”
Why did you leave rugby union in 2012?
“I was made redundant by the WRU, who went from three full-time referees to just one as a cost-cutting exercise. They’re employing more professional referees now, as there are more youngsters coming through. That’s good. I’m not bitter.”
Why start all over again in rugby league?
“I was always an armchair rugby league fan and was very good friends with Clive Griffiths – he’s a Welsh legend in both codes. I planned to take a year out to reflect on what I did next. But Griff phoned me and next thing I know Ian Smith, the RFL head of officials at the time, was telling me there was an opportunity in league and they would love to have me on board. I made the move and didn’t look back.”
That was 2013. How has it gone?
“I did my first professional games in 2017 and this year I’m a Grade 1, the top grade. So technically I could referee in Super League, although that’s likely to be a season or two away. I owe a lot to Ben Thaler, who took me under his wing and mentored me. The hardest challenge was psychological. I was an international referee, on TV every weekend, with the buzz of thousands of people in stadiums. Next thing I was in the community game on a park pitch. But I pressed reset and started again.”
Can you appreciate how difficult it is for players to cross codes?
“Yes, I can see why they don’t make it. It’s different for a referee. My game management skill set was already there but I had to learn the positioning. Also, you have time on your side as a ref: players don’t. It’s a huge risk to switch codes in your thirties.”
What are the main differences?
“Coaches in league are more direct. Not abusive but they express their views! In union they are generally more constructive. What surprised me in league was the players being on first name terms with the ref. They’re very friendly and talk all the time. In union, you don’t talk so much and refer to the players by numbers. There are exceptions: Ronan O’Gara is a lovely bloke off the field, but on it he was a pain!”
Learning to referee in south Wales must have prepared you well …
“Yes it helps! The crowds up north are very passionate: it’s tribalism. The crowd tell you what they think and you either thrive on that or fall to pieces. I’m used to it. My dad got me into refereeing as he was a good referee. I really enjoy it.
What was it like being an unknown again?
“It took me back to enjoying myself and gave me new ambitions. And being totally independent is in my favour. I’m judged on my ability now. In my first season I did a game in Lancashire. The away team were from Yorkshire and their coach said: ‘We never get anything here, Lancashire referee will give us nowt’. I told him – in my very strong Welsh accent – that I’d driven four and a half hours to get there, didn’t know where Emmerdale was and didn’t care who won!”
If you could introduce one rule from one code to another, what would it be?
“I’d like to see union introduce the rugby league interchange rule: you have 10 changes and it’s up to you how you use them. It would take away the question of whether a substitution is tactical or an injury and it would speed up the game: making substitutions while the game is going on, not stopping all the time and waiting while a player trundles 60 yards to the touchline.”
A lot of rugby fans think scrums in both codes are farcical, for opposite reasons …
“If rugby union scrums were as easy to referee as league ones, I’d still be an international referee! In league it’s an accepted means of restarting the game, bringing the forwards together, and limiting the players out wide. In union it’s a contest, a battle. As far as the front row are concerned, even if they’ve conceded 60 points, if they win three scrums against the head they’ve won the game! Refereeing the scrum is many a ref’s Achilles heel, especially those of us who weren’t forwards, but I enjoyed it – in a sadistic way. I got some great help understanding the dark arts from [former cross-code prop] Dai Young at Cardiff and Jon Humpreys [former Wales hooker] at Ospreys.”
What do you think of the NRL returning to one referee?
“I’m not a fan of two refs. From a consistency and game management point of view, it doesn’t appeal to me. My interpretation of a slow ruck might be different from the other ref’s. I can see a pocket referee could be useful, but you have the touch judges and TMO’s to help. That’s how it should stay. But I’d embrace it if it ever comes over here.”
Union fans watching league have been shocked by the contact in the NRL…
“There’s a higher tolerance level in rugby league. Challenges in the air and high tackles are deemed reckless or dangerous in union, irrespective of intent. There is a worry about the game going soft and players are concerned about new tackling rules, but player welfare is huge. It’s a sensitive topic. Rugby league has not gone as far and that leaves a grey area. There’s an old-fashioned mentality about the big hit. These are massive men running at each other at pace. They’re moving wardrobes. I was taken aback by it, but they are built to take that.”
How do you feel about top players becoming professional referees?
“It’s really positive. If you’ve played, you understand what’s going through a player’s mind. It’s not black and white. You understand their frustrations, have empathy. There’s a new system in place in rugby league to support players becoming refs. Aaron Moore – Liam’s brother – played for North Wales Crusaders and is now an RFL referee. I reffed Glen Jackson at Saracens – he went home to New Zealand, took up reffing and is now an international referee. It’s a great opportunity to extend your career in the game into your forties.”
What’s your ambition in rugby league?
“My ultimate goal was to referee at the 2021 World Cup but that is looking less likely now. I did referee the Welsh Dragonhearts against Malta with Jarrod Sammut last year and could touch-judge a European Championship game as a neutral, which would tick a box for RLEF. But I would want to be there on merit, not as a token Welshman.”
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